Is there a rework coming to Paragons? - Guild Wars Forums

Darmikau · Jul 28, 2011, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Ritualists, Mesmers, and Dervishes now have all seen a slight re-work to a lot of their abilities. I've heard rumors that Paragons are up for this treatment. Are these, at the moment, nothing more than rumors, or is there an official statement somewhere? Thanks.

wilebill · Jul 28, 2011, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Think it was mentioned as an intention or possibility by someone at ANet. Probably very low on ANet's priorities at this time. Then too, the Dervish has given PvP enough reason for balance and play style adjustment without reawakening the Paragon Nightmare.

Paras perform acceptably in PvE at the present time with enough PvE only skills!

iToasterHD · Jul 28, 2011, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Let's all agree we heard them explicitly state they are, and maybe they will feel obligated! Besides, I need the Paragon up and ready so I can practice being a good Guardian...

Axel Zinfandel · Jul 28, 2011, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

Paras perform acceptably in PvE at the present time with enough PvE only skills!

No, they don't. Any class is good enough with PvE skills. Paragon players only have one unique, very boring build to play with.

Gill Halendt · Jul 28, 2011, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

Let's all agree we heard them explicitly state they are, and maybe they will feel obligated!

We also heard them state they won't be releasing any more extensive class-reworks, but rather focus on tweaks, adjustments and fixes.

cataphract · Jul 28, 2011, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

No, they don't. Any class is good enough with PvE skills. Paragon players only have one unique, very boring build to play with.

That's only because of bad profession design. Had paras been designed with Diablo 2 Amazon spear skills they would have been more versatile, more useful and a hell of a lot more fun to play. I mean, throwing ugly toothpicks at foes from the back while wearing max armor? Please.

The only fun I have playing para is when I equip a sword and join my warrior heroes in melee.

Darmikau · Jul 28, 2011, 06:57 AM // 06:57

I ask because Paragons are my favorite profession, and my own Paragon is by far my most loved/played character. However, I know the state that Imbagon is in, and though I don't often run it, I do often find myself with very limited options on what to build for PvE. I have access to every skill both elite and non-elite, and yet most of my builds end up with some form of party protection like "SYG!" or "ToF!" and my elite selection is usually limited to skills like Defensive Anthem, Song of Restoration, and "Incoming!" PvE staples like "TNTF!" also never leave my bar. Everything else feels awkward or inferior, such as Anthem of Fury or Anthem of Guidance, which are either too situational or too weak for PvE use and are much more suited to specific party comps that would be found in PvP - yet I hardly see Paragons in PvP. Many of the single target Echoes and Refrain are visibly effective, yet not the kind of skills you want to bring/manage in PvE, again suited better for PvP environment.

wilebill · Jul 28, 2011, 08:40 AM // 08:40

"Had paras been designed with Diablo 2 Amazon spear skills they would have been more versatile, more useful and a hell of a lot more fun to play." Very true Cataphract. If only. I concede the point.

Now that I think about it, my most common PvE build is a variant of Imbagon using SY powered up by Anthem of Fury and Spear of Fury combined with Anthem of Flame, Anthem of Weariness, and Barbed Spear to provide conditions for Spear of Fury to work with.

But even at Luxon 12 Spear of Fury is more like Spear of Tickle when it comes to damage. With 4 adrenaline users in the party, Anthem of Fury does work well. This para build is high on protection but low on damage. My warrior is almost as good spamming SY and does a very lot more damage.

Somewhere on pvxwiki there is a wonderful Sandbox page providing variant Paragon builds with much better damage but I cannot find it.

Artisan Archer · Jul 28, 2011, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Please don't do more reworks, one OP profession in PvP is enough.

Saint Scarlet · Jul 28, 2011, 10:15 AM // 10:15

As Gill stated, Anet did say after the Dervish rework that they will not be doing another class rework to the same extent as they did the Dervish. What this means is yes they probably will get an upgrade in skill usability, but will it be to the extent of the Ritualist and Mesmer or more like the way Warriors were given a little love hug. Only Anet knows for sure but i personally am expecting them to make a change halfway between the 2 options(i.e. making it so that Para's are no longer pariahs but are welcomed without having just an Imba build).

BrettM · Jul 28, 2011, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

Somewhere on pvxwiki there is a wonderful Sandbox page providing variant Paragon builds with much better damage but I cannot find it.

My bet is you're thinking of Khomet's sandbox, but it's on the regular wiki, not PvX.

loopysnoopy · Jul 28, 2011, 11:01 AM // 11:01

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Upcom...s_and_features

These are the pending updates most recently mentioned by ANet:
In April 2010, ANet staff said, "[...] non-???Imbagon??? Paragons, and the smiting line for the Monk" are "things we???ve been considering for major updates of their own."

In January 2011, John Stumme mentioned that the Live Team would focus on "smaller balance fixes" instead of "major overhauls" in the near future, instead prioritizing unspecified non-balance changes.

The likely hood is we wont see another full profession re-balance but maybe smaller reworks.

Spiritz · Jul 28, 2011, 12:02 PM // 12:02

We know why they say no major overhauls - they did derv in what id say a rush job , 1/2 thought out and get things done and probably thought "we can always do another update to nerf/buff ..... .And i think after the big derv update there was between 2 and 4 normal updates which changed a few derv skills each time.

It is a shame that paragon wasnt slighty buffed before as i also agree with ppl that paragons have limited builds and sometimes use.I do remember a while back quite a few paras were in outposts and got into teams easily , but these days i rarely see many paras anywhere but could be bad timing on my side.
It seems to me paragon is a lost class and probably anets private joke on us players.
It also appears that if you take all 10 professions and work down them and compare which professions are widly used by foes in gw - paragons seem to be bottom of the list and hardly used at all.Ok wik added i think paragon to a few 2ndry builds for wik foes.

wilebill · Jul 28, 2011, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

My bet is you're thinking of Khomet's sandbox, but it's on the regular wiki, not PvX.

Yes, thanks BrettM! This is a set of alternate builds for the Paragon. Don't know how I managed to lose the link!

Mireles · Jul 28, 2011, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I don't know if i trust this dev team to rework classes without making a bigger problem than they started with...

Zenzai · Jul 28, 2011, 10:54 PM // 22:54

The dervish class was flawed from the ground up. The paragon, even with it's issues, was never as bad as the dervish was in the beginning. It shouldn't need excessively drastic changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mireles

I don't know if i trust this dev team to rework classes without making a bigger problem than they started with...

Shayne Hawke · Jul 28, 2011, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Ritualists weren't reworked. Spirits were made a lot more viable in PvE, and some of their elites got shifted around, but the main playstyle of the class for the most part stayed the same.

I don't recall any official statements since the large dervish update that say anything about another class being reworked in the future.

Prestige · Jul 28, 2011, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenzai

It shouldn't need excessively drastic changes.

Your wrong there. Paragons are the most unbalanced class for Player versus
Environment, the only build I see people run is Imbagon (Which stands for Imbalanced & Paragon.

It's almost unreal to think that Paragons don't need a nerf and more buffs on
other useless skills that ANET made.

Jul 28, 2011, 01:07 AM // 01:07	#1
Darmikau Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Oct 2006 Guild: Pun Goes [Here] Profession: P/W	Is there a rework coming to Paragons? Ritualists, Mesmers, and Dervishes now have all seen a slight re-work to a lot of their abilities. I've heard rumors that Paragons are up for this treatment. Are these, at the moment, nothing more than rumors, or is there an official statement somewhere? Thanks.

Jul 28, 2011, 01:41 AM // 01:41	#2
wilebill Desert Nomad Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mt Vernon, Ohio Guild: Band of the Hawk Profession: W/Mo	Think it was mentioned as an intention or possibility by someone at ANet. Probably very low on ANet's priorities at this time. Then too, the Dervish has given PvP enough reason for balance and play style adjustment without reawakening the Paragon Nightmare. Paras perform acceptably in PvE at the present time with enough PvE only skills!

Jul 28, 2011, 03:38 AM // 03:38	#3
iToasterHD Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Dec 2007 Guild: We Need Therapy [NOW] Profession: Rt/	Let's all agree we heard them explicitly state they are, and maybe they will feel obligated! Besides, I need the Paragon up and ready so I can practice being a good Guardian...

Jul 28, 2011, 06:57 AM // 06:57	#7
Darmikau Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Oct 2006 Guild: Pun Goes [Here] Profession: P/W	I ask because Paragons are my favorite profession, and my own Paragon is by far my most loved/played character. However, I know the state that Imbagon is in, and though I don't often run it, I do often find myself with very limited options on what to build for PvE. I have access to every skill both elite and non-elite, and yet most of my builds end up with some form of party protection like "SYG!" or "ToF!" and my elite selection is usually limited to skills like Defensive Anthem, Song of Restoration, and "Incoming!" PvE staples like "TNTF!" also never leave my bar. Everything else feels awkward or inferior, such as Anthem of Fury or Anthem of Guidance, which are either too situational or too weak for PvE use and are much more suited to specific party comps that would be found in PvP - yet I hardly see Paragons in PvP. Many of the single target Echoes and Refrain are visibly effective, yet not the kind of skills you want to bring/manage in PvE, again suited better for PvP environment.

Jul 28, 2011, 08:40 AM // 08:40	#8
wilebill Desert Nomad Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mt Vernon, Ohio Guild: Band of the Hawk Profession: W/Mo	"Had paras been designed with Diablo 2 Amazon spear skills they would have been more versatile, more useful and a hell of a lot more fun to play." Very true Cataphract. If only. I concede the point. Now that I think about it, my most common PvE build is a variant of Imbagon using SY powered up by Anthem of Fury and Spear of Fury combined with Anthem of Flame, Anthem of Weariness, and Barbed Spear to provide conditions for Spear of Fury to work with. But even at Luxon 12 Spear of Fury is more like Spear of Tickle when it comes to damage. With 4 adrenaline users in the party, Anthem of Fury does work well. This para build is high on protection but low on damage. My warrior is almost as good spamming SY and does a very lot more damage. Somewhere on pvxwiki there is a wonderful Sandbox page providing variant Paragon builds with much better damage but I cannot find it.

Jul 28, 2011, 09:09 AM // 09:09	#9
Artisan Archer Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2007 Guild: Free Wind Profession: R/	Please don't do more reworks, one OP profession in PvP is enough.

Jul 28, 2011, 10:15 AM // 10:15	#10
Saint Scarlet Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Everywhere Guild: Rise of Corruption[RoC] Profession: R/	As Gill stated, Anet did say after the Dervish rework that they will not be doing another class rework to the same extent as they did the Dervish. What this means is yes they probably will get an upgrade in skill usability, but will it be to the extent of the Ritualist and Mesmer or more like the way Warriors were given a little love hug. Only Anet knows for sure but i personally am expecting them to make a change halfway between the 2 options(i.e. making it so that Para's are no longer pariahs but are welcomed without having just an Imba build).

Jul 28, 2011, 11:01 AM // 11:01	#12
loopysnoopy Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: England Guild: The Ministery Of Cookies (MC) Profession: W/Mo	http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Upcom...s_and_features These are the pending updates most recently mentioned by ANet: In April 2010, ANet staff said, "[...] non-???Imbagon??? Paragons, and the smiting line for the Monk" are "things we???ve been considering for major updates of their own." In January 2011, John Stumme mentioned that the Live Team would focus on "smaller balance fixes" instead of "major overhauls" in the near future, instead prioritizing unspecified non-balance changes. The likely hood is we wont see another full profession re-balance but maybe smaller reworks.

Jul 28, 2011, 12:02 PM // 12:02	#13
Spiritz Forge Runner Join Date: Apr 2007 Guild: DMFC	We know why they say no major overhauls - they did derv in what id say a rush job , 1/2 thought out and get things done and probably thought "we can always do another update to nerf/buff ..... .And i think after the big derv update there was between 2 and 4 normal updates which changed a few derv skills each time. It is a shame that paragon wasnt slighty buffed before as i also agree with ppl that paragons have limited builds and sometimes use.I do remember a while back quite a few paras were in outposts and got into teams easily , but these days i rarely see many paras anywhere but could be bad timing on my side. It seems to me paragon is a lost class and probably anets private joke on us players. It also appears that if you take all 10 professions and work down them and compare which professions are widly used by foes in gw - paragons seem to be bottom of the list and hardly used at all.Ok wik added i think paragon to a few 2ndry builds for wik foes.

Jul 28, 2011, 04:38 PM // 16:38	#15
Mireles Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2009 Profession: W/Me	I don't know if i trust this dev team to rework classes without making a bigger problem than they started with...

Jul 28, 2011, 11:24 PM // 23:24	#17
Shayne Hawke Departed from Tyria Join Date: May 2007 Guild: Clan Dethryche [dth] Profession: R/	Ritualists weren't reworked. Spirits were made a lot more viable in PvE, and some of their elites got shifted around, but the main playstyle of the class for the most part stayed the same. I don't recall any official statements since the large dervish update that say anything about another class being reworked in the future.